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 Marth's Matchups

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Alexandria
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PostSubject: Marth's Matchups   Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:57 pm

Disadvantages


Meta Knight 35:65 Meta Knight

Summary:

K this match is gay, though debatably not as gay as the Snake match depending on the gayness of the Snake.. but nevertheless still epic amounts of gay, depending on how gay the meta knight is that you are playing.

SO WITH THAT SAID

If you play your standard aggro game you will get raped.. probably by about 3 moves. However, if you do have an offense going don't lose your resolve.. press the advantageous situation you are in.

If you can get a grab when MK is at 0% that's good, but don't fish for it too hard or you will take unnecessary damage. You can dthrow to fsmash for 25% or do the kadaj combo of fthrow to nair to dancing blade/fsmash (can be di'd i believe, dthrow to fsmash is the most reliable).

Mk's third ftilt and dtilt out range your entire repertoire besides your shield breaker, but that's hardly safe. Because if this you have to rely on a turtling approach to the match. Attempt to keep him out with fairs, dtilts, and dancing blade his small openings/combo it off a tilt or fair. Last MK I played he was able to up b out of my down dancing blade 4 a few times so uh.. don't use it >_>

Pivot grabs > All of MK's dash approaches + tornado. Marth's pivot grab has insane range and can really frustrate a MK if he is too predictable with his dash attacks/grabs. If it's not 0% you should probably release him and combo it to fair or dash attack, dolphin slash works too. Sometimes running up smash works as well because MK's don't know how to get away from it, so if you're willing to take the risk you can get an easy kill.

If he drills to recover (or even tornado) you can counter it (safer option) or dolphin slash right through it.

If he up b's he is very weak from below. Up air or sliding up smash can punish this well. If he up b's off stage and didn't sweet spot anything you can spike him if you position yourself right. MK probably screwed up pretty bad here, but capitalize if it happens.

Marth's Up air > MK's down air. Marth's aerial mobility > MK's aerial mobility. This means MK is very susceptible to being juggled by Marth, take advantage when you get him above you.

Even though MK's dtilt out ranges yours you can still kind of zone with it, they're very similar in range and you can sometimes hit his hand lolz.

When you are in killing range you can simply jump over MK's fsmash and dsmash. Stay in the air around these percents with your fairs and you will make getting killed a very hard task. Good DI will also make you very hard to kill.

When recovering you should go SUPER low. I mean REALLLLLY low. Almost low enough that you suicide. MK normally doesn't expect this and once he sees you do it hell just fly back to the ledge. Jump, stall, up b and you have a good chance of recovering. Know that MK can predict your side b stall and let go of the ledge and dair gimp you. If you think he is going to chase you low before you have decided where to go then just jump over him and land safely on stage. It's a guessing game.

MK is light, killing him usually isn't TOO much of a problem. Second strong hit nair will kill very nicely in this match. If he is gliding back to the stage some times a surprise bair from the ledge will kill him and he won't be able to react. Tipper fsmash and up tilt kill very early. Also if you shield his dsmash you can dsmash back.

You can up b out of MK's tornado every time, though sometimes he may bait this and just touch your shield with it and run away. If you KNOW MK's glide attack is going to not be spaced well you can up b as soon as it hits you, but be careful as it can be be deceptive.

Your dancing blade has transcendent priority. This means it can go right through MK's tornado without a problem. Through my experience SH Dancing blade > fair works well, or once you dancing blade buffering may take over and MK will just drill attack allowing for easy punishment.

Your JAB outranges MK's fair btw, along with a few other attacks. If you ever shield MK's dsmash immediately shield drop to dancing blade. Don't every try to punish his fsmash as he is probably baiting you.

If he dtilts you don't get stuck in your shield cus he will probably just dash grab if he sees that.

Also:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203056

Discussion:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179458

King Dedede 40:60 Dedede

Summary:

Another very close match where Marth may be at a very slight disadvantage. Dedede has a huge grab range and if he manages to grab you it's usually at least a guaranteed 20-30 damage. His ftilt can shut down a grounded approach from you as it outranges all of your moves including shield breaker, fortunately it does not do very much damage and his minimal knockback. You also have the frame advantage if it hits you when he uses it at an unsafe range. His up tilt will kill you pretty early as well, though he doesn't have any sure set ups for this move. You must take extra care of your spacing here or else you will be punished hard. Dedede can also edge guard you fairly well.

Looking at Marth's advantages, he is a much faster attacker than Dedede and he can apply pressure to him well. He has much better aerial mobility and can short hop fair or nair over his ftilt to get inside. Nair will be used much more in this match since Dedede is so fat; when tipped this move will have some great knock back and is one of your safest kill moves. Also, at 0% you can chain fthrows on Dedede into an fsmash or DB, keep that in mind to put him in a bad spot early in stock. This will set you up for an edge guarding oppurtunity, and while you will probably not kill Dedede out here you can easily get some free damage in by jumping out there with fairs and bairs. When Dedede up b's you should also be ready to punish whether or not he cancels it. Up smash and up air when spaced will go right through his up b, keep this in mind to set up a juggle trap. If he cancels it and goes for the ledge try and grab on, he will fall right to his death. If you aren't fast enough set up your ledge spacing and do all that you can to keep him off stage. Keep him in that bad position for as long as possible.

Once you are inside Dedede's ftilt space yourself so that you can still outrange Dedede's grab. This is his blind spot and you can easily apply pressure with your sword in this area. For the most part Marth has to be offensive and give Dedede little room to breath. If you play a standard defensive game he will camp you all day long.

While Dedede will live much longer than Marth in most cases, Marth's ability to pressure him and limit Dedede's options allows you to even this match up.

Random stuff:
You can swat or PS his projectiles, gordo you better just shield or get out of the way of that thing, will kill you very early.
Dtilt trap works very well when inside his ftilt, he doesn't have very good options to deal with it. Once he rolls or spot dodges just punish with DB.

Discussion:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186738

Snake 40:60 Snake

Summary:

This is a very close match up (unless Snake plays realllllly gay, which is why i moved this to 40 60). Snake is a very fast attacker on the ground and controls the stage with his explosives and tilts. You must play extra smart in this match to not fall into any of his traps, explosives etc.

Approaching Snake can be a problem, however you must or he can just throw **** at you. If he is nade tossing see if you can use them against him. If it isn't cooked for very long grab the nade and either glide toss that thing > whatever you wish, or run up to him with your shield and have it blow up in his face.

Once you are inside his nades you must be patient and pick your spots; rush in with an aerial and chances are you will eat an ftilt to the face. Marth's dtilt outranges everything Snake has on the ground except for the second hit of his ftilt, so keep that in mind. If his ftilt hits your shield you have a few options to punish him. You can DS right out or simply shield drop to dancing blade. Your goal at this point is to get inside those tilts and proceed to put on the hurt.

Get Snake in the air. Snake SUCKS in the air while Marth thrives. This is where your juggle traps come into play and can really rack up the damage on Snake. If you do it right he will have a real hard time getting back on his feet, if he ever does. You want to do SHFF up airs underneath him. If he will air dodge past those up smash him as he comes down, that hit box is so messed up it will probably be able to hit Snake just as he comes out of his AD. You can also just grab him and up throw again.. or even dancing blade up version, what ever you do you effectively reset the situation.

Marth can also harass Snake's recovery big time. You will most likely be able to get in a few aerials while he is dangling from his cypher. Once he successfully recovers high you can just reset your juggle trap, he's in the perfect position for it. Do keep in mind Snake can reverse b his grenades and C4, so you may have to do a little chasing if the Snake is good at it.

Some final notes... if you have Snake on the ledge you should be able to trap him there pretty effectively. He doesn't have very good options when getting back up. (but know he can do the exact same thing to you, be smart and don't "jump into the rape")

Snake has a good grab game so don't be predictable with your wake ups.

His up tilt will kill you pretty early.

Discussion:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181156



Very Slight Disadvantages


Even


ROB 50:50 Even

Summary:

Probably one of the most even match ups in the game, ROB has tilts that rival yours in range and can somewhat camp you with his laser and gyro. If you block the gyro it will just disappear and he can charge up another one, see if you can pick it up and glide toss it for a way for you to get inside.

This is another match where Marth has to rely on more of an offensive game to avoid ROB's camping. He will try and keep you out with his tilts that he can angle up to also cover any aerial approach. If you block a tilt be sure to punish with DB or up b.

ROB doesn't have many good options once you have your zoning set up, keep pressuring him with your sword once up close. If he spot dodges you can definitely expect a down smash to follow it up. If you are suffering from lag make sure you are ready to smash DI upwards to get out of it. If he dsmashes your shield quickly up b to hit him back out. Marth's dancing blade will wreck his dodging if he tries to use it often.

Both characters can do some nasty things when edge guarding each other. He can do a string of fairs and can also dair you if you aren't careful. Up b through them to get back on quickly as possible or time an air dodge correctly. You can also get in some free damage usually with your aerials as well, he will often end up recovering high so you can set up a juggle trap if this happens. Landing a dair on him is also a possibility.

Other stuff:
Ledge guarding him is tougher than other characters. He has better options with a good ledge attack range.
His smashes don't have too much cool down time but they also don't kill all that well either.

Discussion:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181823

Donkey Kong 50:50 Even

Summary:

DK's power and range even this match up, though I personally feel Marth may have a slight advantage. This is yet another match where you must focus on getting inside his tilts and then give him ZERO room to breath. You must stay on him or you may give him enough space to zone you again (usually with ftilts, dtilts, and maybe his down b).

If you block something from DK, you should be able to punish it unless he is retreating a bair. If DK jumps at you with his back towards you it is pretty easy to see what is coming, the bair will beat your fair so you should probably just counter; don't be too predictable with it though.

Marth outclasses DK in terms of edge guarding, his recovery is pretty one-dimensional and you can counter his up b every time... you can also attempt to dair him to put him out of his misery.

DK will be playing a keep away game while your goal is to limit these options and aggro him pretty hard. His fsmash will kill you very early, if you miss an up b you are pretty much screwed, so be careful.

Discussion:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5347904

Wolf 50:50 Even

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5271159

Marth 50/50 Mirror Match

Summary:

The dreaded Marth ditto. A very awkward match up. You can't rely on your normal range advantage because your opponent has the same range and tools as you (obviously). You also can't rely on your aerials as much either.

It is best recommended to rely more on your grounded approaches. If you approach with fairs you can just eat an fsmash or ftilt to the face.

Just because you can't aerial as much doesn't mean you are very limited. Marth still has a great ground game to dominate with. If you know your character then you should know what works and what doesn't in a Marth ditto. Keep in mind you can take advantage of juggling Marth. You can take advantage of Marth's average recovery. Speaking of recovery, edge guarding has about a 50/50 shot of you successfully gimping your opponent.. or you will just gimp yourself. Be careful and don't kill yourself when attempting the edge guard.

Grabs to put your ditto in bad positions are great. Specifically off the stage or up in the air. Also do NOT rely on dthrow > fsmash. That doesn't work. The opponent can either DI out or just hit you in the face with a reverse up B. I've found fthrow to stutter step fsmash works much better at 0%.

May add more to this later, but just hope you win in the midst of all the gheyness in this match up.

Slight Advantages

Ice Climbers 55:45 Marth

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239568

Falco 60:40 Marth

Summary:

One of the true advantages Marth has over a current top tier character; Falco's normal gameplay is simply not as effective vs Marth. Falco's chain grab which can be used against he majority of the cast is nullified by Marth's up b. Keep in mind that Falco can bait the up b and punish you after you miss.. don't be predictable.

Falco's lasers are quite honestly not much of a problem at all for Marth. Marth has the speed and aerial mobility to get past these lasers. Once he is in he will be able to deal double if not more damage than what Falco put on him attempting to camp. SHDL.. dash under the first laser which should go over you and try to power shield the one underneath. You will quickly close the distance and Falco and be able to apply pressure with your sword. Know that in this match Falco may rely more on a simple SHL to space himself a little easier.

Once you are too close for him to safely spam lasers he may try to hit you with his reflector to continue his keep away game. If you block it, it has plenty of cooldown time for you to punish with DB. If the Falco knows the match up he will try and stay away constantly, if you are getting past his reflector expect him to try and phantasm to reset his spacing and stage control.

Falco has no good options to deal with your zoning. All of your pokes outrange his. Keep in mind his fsmash will beat a fair approach, but he would have to predict that to get it off in time. Because falco fails at the close range game vs Marth he will probably rely on camping in this match up. Thankfully, Marth has the mobility to easily close the distance and continue to lay the hurt on Falco.

Marth should be able to kill Falco earlier and has a better edge guarding game than Falco. You can easily gimp his up b with a simple ledge hog. If he finds his way onto the ledge you need to space yourself properly. Try and position yourself so that you can punish a regular get up but also be able to cover a phantasm get up. You can hit the phantasm with your sword or just shield it and punish the landing lag.

Copy pasted from EL's analysis:

Marth's advantages

- Heavier
- More range overall
- Greater knockback
- Slightly harder to gimp
- Has good damaging combos at low percents
- Has a death combo at low percents as well
(my edit: this is fthrow > fthrow> dair > edge hog for those who do not know)
- Faster running speed and greater mobility overall


Falco's advantages

- Camping tactics with lasers and shine
- Evasive tactics with Phantasm
- Possible CG (Can be escaped with up b)
- Possible Death combo ( Again, it can be escaped with up b)
- Good damaging combo at lower percents off of grab. ( Dash attack cancelled u-smash)
- Good Roll
- Good spot-dodge

Discussion:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183545

Mr. Game and Watch 60:40 Marth

Summary:

This match may even be 65:35, either way it is probably Marth's best match up against a top tier character.

I'll start off by saying a spaced dtilt will destroy GW's ground game completely. He seriously can not do much except try and escape through a jump or up b (if he is above you 9 times out of 10 he will dair, you can counter or up b out of shield). His roll is ridiculously slow which makes it even easier to hit with a DB.

GW telegraphs a lot. When you see him SH towards you backwards you know he can only have so many options, bair being the main one. For this reason counter is highly recommended in this match, but like everything that can get predicted and punished. Another option for his turtle is to simply shield it and up b, I believe an up b out of shield will hit even the perfectly spaced turtle, but I have to test this. And as always ftilt and fsmash destroy short hop approaches.

GW's smashes are ridiculous and will kill you at a relatively low percentage.. He has a plethora of kill moves and set ups through his d throw (be sure you know how to tech this). The problem however, is he has a hard time landing a kill move on Marth. Marth outranges all of them and would have to mess up pretty bad to get hit by one.

You outrange and outspeed GW. You have a better pressure game when you have him on the defensive. You can retaliate against plenty of his normal offensive options better than the entire cast pretty much.

Other stuff:
He has a great recovery, probably not very gimpable.
GW has a pretty good damage output.
Kill moves while hard to land, are safe on block. Watch out for iasa frames on a lot of his attacks especially his dtilt.
GW may try and stall you with chef. Your sword can cut through all the projectiles.

Discussion:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188192

Diddy Kong 60:40 Marth

Summary:

Diddy Kong would be destroyed by Marth if he didn't have his bananas. You outrange his tilts and his smashes with your tilts.

This match is all about control. If Diddy has two bananas on stage and has you in a defensive position you are in trouble. You want to stay on him and not let him get much room to work with his nanners.

If you manage to pick up a nana know that you have a very good glide toss. Use the nanas against Diddy.

As complex as this match up is at first look, your main game plan is to simply prevent him from maintaining control with the nanas. Keep the tip of your sword in his face and don't give him too much room to set up anything.

Stuff:

if you know a dash attack is coming to pick up a nana, you can dtilt or just counter
don't be stupid and get caught in a nana lock by rolling right into it, also be aware if you roll the other way Diddy may be ready with a smash. Be smart
His recovery is decent

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189473

Bowser 60:40 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191093

Peach 60:40 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191608

Toon Link 60:40 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191905

Lucario 60:40 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192763

Zelda 60:40 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5383437

Sheik 60:40 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195174

Zero Suit Samus 55:45 Marth

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8002277

Sonic 60:40 Marth

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240126

Kirby 60:40 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196139

Olimar 60:40 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5496150

Link 60:40 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5506627

Pit 60:40 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5210924

Fox 60:40 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193234

Wario 60:40 Marth

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238943


Advantages



Pikachu 65:35 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196247

Yoshi 65:35 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5450021

Samus 65:35 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197073

Mario 65:35 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5481233

Ike 65:35 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5489035

Pokemon Trainer 65:35 Marth
75:25 Marth
65:35 Marth
60:40 Marth

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198012


Large Advantages


Lucas 70:30 Marth

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5527609

Luigi 70:30 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5484253

Jigglypuff 70:30 Marth

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5504179

Ness 70:30 Marth

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198180


Rape Advantages


Captain Falcon 75:25 Marth

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198446

Ganondorf 80:20 Marth

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5515504
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PostSubject: Re: Marth's Matchups   Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:36 pm

Nice Thread this is very helpful because I use Marth so thanks! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Marth's Matchups   Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:23 am

she so copied and pasted this crap >.>

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